Comments on: The Banff Challenge [Eqn] http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/2008/eotw-banff-challenge/ Weaving together Astronomy+Statistics+Computer Science+Engineering+Intrumentation, far beyond the growing borders Fri, 01 Jun 2012 18:47:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4 By: hlee http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/2008/eotw-banff-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-320 hlee Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:04:24 +0000 http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/?p=357#comment-320 A fun video clip about LHC from Youtube, Large Hadron Rap. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j50ZssEojtM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j50ZssEojtM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> A fun video clip about LHC from Youtube, Large Hadron Rap.

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By: Paul B http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/2008/eotw-banff-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-311 Paul B Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:17:50 +0000 http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/?p=357#comment-311 Hmmm, indeed this is a tricky problem! N,Y and Z are <b>conditionally</b> independent, given the parameters, but the real problem is that epsilon is a multiplicative factor on the interest parameter. That makes inference very sensitive to the efficiency of the detector -- and is the main reason why no method works perfectly for a wide range of source and efficiency values. Finding the various types of MLE (profile, modified profile etc) is not too bad, the real problem is providing reliable estimates of the uncertainty. Finding a 95% confidence interval that actually provides 95% confidence is far easier said than done (see the references for some explanations). This is also the primary criterion for many of the physicists involved, so it leaves plenty of work to be done. It still bothers me that there isn't a decent Bayesian solution yet (that I've seen anyway), but I'm sure one is out there somewhere... Hmmm, indeed this is a tricky problem! N,Y and Z are conditionally independent, given the parameters, but the real problem is that epsilon is a multiplicative factor on the interest parameter. That makes inference very sensitive to the efficiency of the detector — and is the main reason why no method works perfectly for a wide range of source and efficiency values.
Finding the various types of MLE (profile, modified profile etc) is not too bad, the real problem is providing reliable estimates of the uncertainty. Finding a 95% confidence interval that actually provides 95% confidence is far easier said than done (see the references for some explanations). This is also the primary criterion for many of the physicists involved, so it leaves plenty of work to be done.
It still bothers me that there isn’t a decent Bayesian solution yet (that I’ve seen anyway), but I’m sure one is out there somewhere…

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By: vlk http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/2008/eotw-banff-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-310 vlk Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:16:54 +0000 http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/?p=357#comment-310 Yeah, N, Y, and Z are independent. With just the first two equations, the problem is very simple, and has been solved analytically numerous times. But including the third one throws it for a loop. The hardest part is to make sure that the frequency coverage on lambda_S is correct at the low counts (N~few) level. See these two for example for how complicated it can become: Edlefson, P. (JSM2007) - <a href="http://www.amstat.org/meetings/jsm/2007/onlineprogram/index.cfm?fuseaction=abstract_details&abstractid=310238" rel="nofollow">A Dempster-Shafer Bayesian Solution to the Banff A1 Challenge</a> Baines, P. (JSM2007) - <a href="http://www.amstat.org/meetings/jsm/2007/onlineprogram/index.cfm?fuseaction=abstract_details&abstractid=308563" rel="nofollow">Upper Limits for Source Detection in the Three-Poisson Model</a> Yeah, N, Y, and Z are independent. With just the first two equations, the problem is very simple, and has been solved analytically numerous times. But including the third one throws it for a loop. The hardest part is to make sure that the frequency coverage on lambda_S is correct at the low counts (N~few) level. See these two for example for how complicated it can become:
Edlefson, P. (JSM2007) – A Dempster-Shafer Bayesian Solution to the Banff A1 Challenge
Baines, P. (JSM2007) – Upper Limits for Source Detection in the Three-Poisson Model

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By: brianISU http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/2008/eotw-banff-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-309 brianISU Mon, 28 Jul 2008 01:18:57 +0000 http://hea-www.harvard.edu/AstroStat/slog/?p=357#comment-309 Being completely ignorant on the physics of the problem, what are the assumptions that are reasonable to make on the data? e.g., are N, Y, and Z independent random variables? That might begin to make things easier. Then, with a derived likelihood, maybe maximize out the nuisance parameters and just be left with the parameter of interest. Or one could try numerical maximizing techniques. This problem also seems to be screaming a Bayesian approach and look at the posterior of the parameter of interest, especially since there are experts in this field that could give reliable prior information. Of course everything I am saying is just a fun thought process and I am not claiming I would really know what to do. Being completely ignorant on the physics of the problem, what are the assumptions that are reasonable to make on the data? e.g., are N, Y, and Z independent random variables? That might begin to make things easier. Then, with a derived likelihood, maybe maximize out the nuisance parameters and just be left with the parameter of interest. Or one could try numerical maximizing techniques. This problem also seems to be screaming a Bayesian approach and look at the posterior of the parameter of interest, especially since there are experts in this field that could give reliable prior information. Of course everything I am saying is just a fun thought process and I am not claiming I would really know what to do.

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